The White Dragon: Bigger, Louder Profanity

In the last chapter, everything went wrong for Jaxom that could, at least in his opinion. His quest to make Sharra believe she’s in love with him was put on hold, and then completely delayed by the construction requirements of a new Hold for Robinton. I had a lot to say about the content of the last chapter, which didn’t make a whole lot of on worldbuilding issues and was rather creepy in others.

The White Dragon: Chapter XVII: Content Notes: Institutionalized sexism, ageism, ableism


The chapter opens with a meeting between Lord Groghe of Fort Hold, N’ton of Fort Weyr, and Sebell, currently Craftmaster of the Harpers (which is different than Masterharper of Pern?), representing the Harpers during Robinton’s recovery. The topic of discussion is all of these Holder sons that still have nowhere to go to Hold their own lands and are continuing to fight among themselves for the right of inheritance. Since Pern lacks an organized religion to send them into and the North decided not to engage in a protracted military campaign against the dragonriders of the south, there’s no ready outlet to bleed off all of the excess men into something that keeps them out of the way. Groghe believes there will be a land rush southward once D’ram takes over at Southern, with plenty believing they can do as Menolly did and live without a Hold or dragons flying overhead. Sebell points out its not for the faint of courage, to which Groghe replies that such a thing would be a feature, not a bug.

The whole thing is a ruse to get the Lord Holders to ask permission to invade the South. More specifically, Robinton sent Sebell around to see how good relations were between Holds and Weyrs and to instill the requirement of asking permission from Benden before heading south, having manipulated everyone else to put them in this position so that the Weyrs would have first strike at land before any Holders arrived. This plan and attitude is laid out in front of the Benden Weyrleaders by Sebell (with N’ton in attendance), along with the new maps of the South made by Jaxom and Piemur. The suggestion is that the western part could be opened up to the Holders and the eastern part reserved for the dragonriders.

Before we get anything more of that meeting, though, we cut back to the cove, where the work party has gone home for the night. The lack of people gets Piemur to reappear, and the three residents of the area all share a commiseration that there were far too many people around. (They also apparently ate just about all the food stores.) Piemur is a bit worried about what people will do to the unspoiled natural beauty of the south, resigning himself to the knowledge of having been there first, before an oddity of the heavens distracts him.

“The so-called Dawn Sisters. You can only see them dusk and dawn down here and much higher in the sky. See, those three very bright points! Many’s the time I’ve used them as guides!”
[…What about ’em, Piemur?…]
“They just don’t act like proper stars. Didn’t you ever notice?”
“No. But we’ve been in most evenings and certainly every dawn.”
Piemur pointed with several stabs of his right arm at the Dawn Sisters. “Most stars change positions. They never do.”
“Sure they do. In Ruatha they’re almost invisible on the horizon…”
Piemur was shaking his head. “They’re constant. That’s what I mean. Every season I’ve been here, they’re always in the same place.”
“Can’t be! It’s impossible. Wansor says that stars have routes in the sky just like–”
“They stay still! They’re always in the same position.”
“And I tell you that’s impossible.”
“What’s impossible? And don’t snarl at each other,” Sharra said, returning with a tray piled high with food and a wineskin slung over her shoulder. Giving Piemur the food, she filled cups all around.
Piemur guffawed as he reached for a buck rib. “Well, I’m going to send a message to Wansor. I say it’s bloody peculiar behavior for stars!”

Bloody appears again, and I guess I’m just supposed to accept it as a tic of the Ancients…

Why Sharra raiding the meat pits and then pouring the glasses? Because the men were talking big things with each other? If Sharra is cut from Brekke’s cloth, then one of those two young men would likely have been dragged along to help. Or maybe that’s Mirrim, since new-Brekke is supposedly devoted to her man. It’s just incongruous that the person who had no trouble telling the Craftmasters off about their bad designs silently slips out, gathers food, and then does table service without a remark. Characterization is apparently also fluid as needed, regardless of the character being bent to serve it.

While the three at the cove eat, we cut away to Robinton, on the deck of Masterfisher Idarolan’s ship, the Dawn Sister. Robinton is content to recover and itching to get back into the business of being the Masterharper, despite Sebell being trained to be his eventual replacement. The name of the ship triggers Robinton to resolve to ask Idarolan for his far-viewer (tele-scope) to check out the Dawn Sisters, as they’re in the wrong position based on what he’s used to. He also resolves to send a message to Wansor asking about this peculiar behavior. Just in case anyone believes that one of Robinton’s subordinates can come up with an idea that Robinton hasn’t, and therefore Robinton might not be the cleverest man on the planet.

Menolly is on board with him, receiving and delivering regular reports about the Harpers. Her presence is felt by his fire lizard before she steps into frame behind him. His grumpiness is soothed with some juice mixed with wine, and then the Feels come out.

“You sound better.”
“Sound better? I’m as peevish as an old uncle! You must be heartily tired of my sulks by now!”

Well, that casts an entirely new light on the nickname that Old Uncle has back in Half-Circle. If being an old uncle is a detriment, then I really wonder what it must be like for him to have a nickname that basically says “Pain in the Ass” – which is Exponentially Wrong because he’s also an amputee, so way to mock both the disabled and the old. I’m sure it’s supposed to be endearing, but it’s not.

“Menolly, I’m fine. I’ll be up and about any day now, Brekke says.” The Harper permitted himself to stroke her hair. “Don’t cry. Not now!”
“Silly of me, I know. Because you’re getting well, and we’ll see to it that you never strain yourself again…” Menolly wiped her eyes impatiently with the back of her hand and sniffled.
It was an endearingly childlike action. Her face, now blotchy from crying, was suddenly so vulnerable that Robinton felt his heart give a startling thump. He smiled tenderly at her, stroked tendrils of her hair back from her face. Tilting her chin up, he kissed her cheek. He felt her hand tighten convulsively on his arm, felt her lean into his kids with an appeal that set both fire-lizards humming.
Perhaps it was that response from their friends, or the fact that he was so startled it caused him to stiffen, but Menolly swiveled away from him.
“I’m sorry,” she said, her head bent, her shoulders sagging.
“So, my dear Menolly, am I,” the Harper said as gently as he could. In that instant, he regretted his age, her youth, how much he loved her-the fact that he never could-and the weakness that caused him to admit so much. She turned back to him, her eyes intense with her emotion.
He held up his hand, saw the quick pain in her eyes, as the merest shake of his fingers forestalled all she wanted to say. He sighed, closing his eyes against the pain in her loving eyes. Abruptly he was exhausted by an exchange of understanding that had taken so few moments. As few as at Impression, he thought, and as lasting. He supposed he had always known the dangerous ambivalence of his feelings for the young SeaHold-bred girl whose rare talent he had developed. Ironic that he should be weak enough to admit it, to himself and to her, at such an awkward moment. Obtuse of him not to have recognized the intensity and quality of Menolly’s feelings for him. Yet, she’d seemed content enough with Sebell. Certainly they enjoyed a deep emotional and physical attachment. Robinton had done everything in his subtle power to insure that. Sebell was the son he never had. Better that!
“Sebell…” he began, and stopped when he felt her fingers tentatively closing over his.
“I loved you first, Master.”
“You’ve been a dear child to me,” he said, willing himself to believe that.

I’m honestly not sure what deserves the stink eye most – the dismissal of a May-December romance (Menolly should be comfortably above the age of squick at this point), Robinton admitting that he’s been manipulating Sebell and Menolly into a relationship (so that bit where both of them were alone on a boat when a fire-lizard goes into heat is now suspicious instead of coincidental), or the way Robinton crushes Menolly’s affection and love for him and buries his own feelings. As a romance trope, doing so rarely ends well for anyone involved. Although, points for it being Robinton invoking I Want My Beloved To Be Happy instead of Menolly. The stated reason, though, seems weak, especially for a manipulator like Robinton, and it seems almost impossible for him not to have noticed Menolly’s feelings for him, given that he’s been trying hard to steer her in Sebell’s direction. It seems like a moment of drama without purpose, unless your narrative’s purpose is to hurt strong women wherever possible, and then it fits nicely with the narrative’s insistence since Dragonsong that Menolly is not allowed to be happy in interpersonal relationships. (Except maybe Sebell, for now)

The chapter closes out with the appearance of Idarolan, who agrees to loan Robinton his distance-viewer and says that he’s already sent word back to Wansor about the oddness of the Dawn Sisters in the Southern sky. So, apparently, everyone is clever and Wansor is going to have to pen a few standard replies for everyone. The chapter fully ends with Robinton asking Menolly to help him finish the (unspecified) board game Robinton and (Idarolan? Menolly?) started this morning. As if nothing had just happened at all.


24 thoughts on “The White Dragon: Bigger, Louder Profanity

  1. JudasFm October 8, 2015 at 5:29 am

    Good reading, but to be honest, I think you’re being a little too harsh in places.

    I don’t think bloody is strange, to be honest. I didn’t know about the etymology of it before reading this blog – I thought it just meant ‘covered in blood’ – and there are cases where sayings have been passed down without their meaning. A good example is “By Jove” which dates from the 1600s and was still being used in the 1930s as an alternative to “By God”. Jove is an alternative name for the Roman god Jupiter, but most people wouldn’t have thought of that; they’d just use it as a random kind of profanity.

    I’m also not sure about the Old Uncle thing; it seems to be more a saying than an established fact. One saying where I come from is that someone “moans like an old woman”. It’s not meant to be detrimental to old women in general and calling someone an old woman doesn’t mean they’re a moaner, if that makes sense. Not everything is a closet insult on Pern. I always saw it as more of a family honorific than anything, in the same way it’s considered polite to address unknown men as “uncle” in some Asian countries (this is sort of supported by Menolly’s naming her fire lizards Uncle and Aunties One and Two, which I always thought pointed to a deplorable lack of imagination on Anne’s part but still…;))

    Also, while Robinton is capable of manipulating situations and people, I really don’t see him as someone who does so for his own amusement; to do that would require a high level of emotional detachment and a complete lack of empathy. Since fire lizard behavior is mostly unknown – even by those who have them – there’s no possible way Robinton could have realized that Beauty was about to rise, or that Sebell and Menolly would be on the boat at that exact second. He’s guilty of matchmaking, perhaps, but no more than that; if either Menolly or Sebell found someone else, I can’t imagine Robinton interfering. Politically, he gains nothing from it, after all.

    Rereading the scene between Robinton and Menolly, it doesn’t strike me that Menolly really is in love with him. She has a level of respect and admiration that borders on worship and her emotions are so charged by almost losing him that she mistakes it for love. Robinton, being a little more experienced, sees this and – unusually for a Pernese man – decides not to take advantage of it.

    Then again, Menolly always struck me as far too much of a canon!Sue for me to ever like her as a character, so I’m inclined to be biased against her 😉

  2. genesistrine October 8, 2015 at 6:54 am


    I see your point about “bloody”, but on the other hand there are so many words that seem to have been scrubbed out of the Pernese language and obliged them to use awkward polysyllabic ambiguous constructions like runnerbeast and redfruit and carbon sticks instead.

    Still, if anything survived a determined language-changing Newspeak program* I guess it would be swearing!

    IIRC Menolly calls fire-lizard Uncle that because he’s frequently bullied/squawked at by the green Aunties. But given her toxic family background I don’t think we can extrapolate to the rest of Pern from that.

    *Come to think of it the stucktogether wordpairs thing in Pernese is a very Newspeak construction, and Newspeak was designed to minimise vocabulary as a method of controlling human thought, and therefore their behaviour. Is this a hint about the original colonists’ ambitions?

  3. JudasFm October 8, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Yeah, runnerbeast and carbon sticks always bugged me. In RSR they refer to them as ‘pencils’ so it irks me. The redfruit I can put up with; I always thought it was a native Pernese fruit called that by the colonists and no one could be bothered to come up with a proper name for it, so it stuck 😉 But as we all know, consistency wasn’t one of Anne’s strong points…

  4. boutet October 8, 2015 at 11:56 am

    I find particularly creepy that Robinton goes from Menolly being “endearingly childlike” to admitting his attraction to her. Wow she looks like a kid, wish I could get with her. Yuck.

    For Craftsmaster I think it’s a general term for any master of a craft. So the Master Harper and the Master Herder are both Craftsmasters. Maybe it’s like not sitting on the throne while the old king is still alive even if you’re running the kingdom. Robinton has become not just a Master Harper but THE Master Harper, so Sebell won’t take the title until Robinton has died or fully retired. Politics.

    @JudasFM “One saying where I come from is that someone “moans like an old woman”. It’s not meant to be detrimental to old women in general and calling someone an old woman doesn’t mean they’re a moaner, if that makes sense.”

    But it IS detrimental to old women. Even if you’re not thinking to yourself, “yes I’m going to insult them by implying that they’re awful the way old women are awful!” you’re still participating in stereotypes that say that being a woman and being old are negative.

    CN for racism, sexism, ableism

    “Drive like an Asian” is detrimental to Asian people, “Sound like an idiot” is detrimental to people with cognitive disabilities, “run like a girl,” is detrimental to girls. It doesn’t matter if you don’t mean it “that way” the words still have meaning and the cultural context that you say it in also has meaning.

  5. Brenda A. October 8, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    Carbon sticks one of the things that have been lost and then reinvented. It’s described as something new to Jaxom when he was drawing his picture of the cove back at Ruatha.

    Does “bloody” have a specific meaning as a curse that would need historical context to make sense? I’m surprised at the extent to which this bothers you, but as an american I don’t really hear the word in use much. I think I may have originally seen it more in Pern than in other literature or TV, so it just felt like one more exotic thing.

  6. genesistrine October 8, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    @Brenda A: they don’t remember charcoal but they remember carbon? This in a context where HNO3 has become “agenothree”?

    Not to mention that carbon comes in graphite and diamond forms, and I bet they’re not using sticks of diamond.

    “Bloody” is often considered to have been a religious oath originally – a shortening of “by Our Lady” – i.e. the Virgin Mary. Same as “zounds” is “God’s wounds” and various other oaths. (See for lots more, if you’re curious.)

  7. EmmyG October 8, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    As a young reader I liked this little Robinton/Menolly scene, as it felt set up to cater to a young female reader like myself, who found Robinton charming and clever and important and wonderful in all the ways that McCaffrey clearly wanted us to, and was thus emotionally disappointed that he was not a love interest, even though if I’d thought it through at that age I probably would then have been bothered by the age difference if they DID get together.

    So this little taste of “Yes, he loves her and she loves him, but no, it’s not going anywhere” felt satisfyingly bittersweet. It made me feel like my emotional response was being acknowledged by the author.

    Sebell was always set up as a nice enough guy, but rarely given much else to set him apart from the mass of names in Pern and make him desirable. We see him mostly as Robinton’s shadow, not as a player in his own right.

    As a much older fan I note that since it’s nearly canon that both Sebell and Menolly love Robinton, the OT3 fic writes itself.

  8. Nothing October 8, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    I was under the impression that Robinton’s reaction to Menolly was less age and more his poor health–he wants sex because in Anne’s books that is the ultimate expression of affection (even in highly problematic cases where it is not sex but rape). But, he cannot have sex lest he put further strain on his heart and die as a result. Anne has written romantic relationships in other series that have similar age differences. It also probably has to do with the idea that Menolly “belongs” to Sebell.

    That said, I think it is meant to be a case of love that couldn’t be. Spoilers, but Menolly probably reminds him of someone… Someone whose existence basically renders Menolly’s struggles pointless, but we’ll save that one for when you reach it. But, his decision not to pursue Menolly is most likely partly because of that person, at least in terms of retcon-logic. Not only does he have lingering feelings, but I kind of think Anne does not like to give her characters more than one love. Someone may know of a story of hers with evidence to the contrary though.

    More evidence of love rather than confused emotions? The fire lizards hummed. They only do that in cases of strong positive emotion, during hatchings, or during births (human or anticipated beloved pets of humans, likely an empathetic reaction).

  9. JudasFm October 8, 2015 at 11:16 pm


    I’m sorry, I put that all wrong 😦 What I was trying to say was that I don’t think Old Uncle was called Old Uncle because of his personality. The fact that there’s a derogatory saying related to it is neither here nor there. “You moan like an old woman” is derogatory – I never meant to imply that it wasn’t – but ‘old woman’ in itself doesn’t have to be. Example:

    “You moan like an old woman!” = derogatory
    “Mrs Harper’s ninety seven. What an old woman!” = statement of fact

    “I’m as peevish as an old uncle!” = derogatory
    “This is the oldest man in the Hold. We call all unrelated men Uncle but he’s the oldest, so he’s known as Old Uncle.” = statement of fact

    True, I have no idea if this is how it turned out, but the fact that such a phrase exists suggests that the whole ‘uncle’ thing is pretty standard on Pern. In Nerilka’s Story, I believe Nerilka also refers to older, unmarried(?) and unrelated people who live with her in Fort Hold as “Aunty” and “Uncle”.

    Also, Elgion uses the name himself on his first night (“Would that I could, Old Uncle, but…”). He’s new in the Hold, but I don’t think he’d be naive enough to start off by insulting one of its members.

  10. boutet October 9, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @JudasFM Thanks for clarifying.

  11. Silver Adept October 10, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    With regard to language, I just can’t see a Terran curse with religious implications surviving the trip across the stars, entirely without any of the other religious bits and pieces that accompany it, and then continuing to survive through eight Passes and Intervals as a language anachronism in spite of the very Newspeak-enabled campaign spearheaded by the Harpers. (That’s a really good point, genesistrine, and I don’t think I ever fully realized I was thinking the same thing until after you articulated it.) There’s a clearly-developed set of oaths at this point that revolve around dragons and their eggs that I would assume would have replaced any colony holdovers at this point.

    About “Old Uncle”, it’s quite possible that it’s not an insulting phrase, but the two examples we have so far are the character in Dragonsong, who is clearly seen as an impediment to anyone assigned to him (and, as far as I know, Elgion has no other name to call him that he could have used instead) and Robinton saying it here. There’s no usages yet that would indicate it’s not anything but an insult.

    As for Robinton and Menolly, I probably shouldn’t be implying that Robinton knew that Beauty would go into heat, but I wouldn’t put it past him to hope/expect/encourage that the proximity of Menolly and Sebell would result in a coupling, for reasons apparently related to spoilers for a future volume about why he’s not looking to make a relationship with Menolly, who is clearly willing.

    I realized, just now, it would have been one of those rare occasions where the coupling would be consensual, without the interference of the telepathic dragons or fire lizards.

    I totally agree that the OT3 writes itself, and that such a thing shouldn’t trip taboos in a society with dragonriders, but I keep getting that one wrong. Robinton would probably appreciate the company of people he loves.

  12. genesistrine October 11, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Maybe there are kakure kirishitans on Pern, and we just haven’t met any yet! 😉

  13. alexseanchai October 11, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    genesistrine: *googles* I have learned a thing today!

  14. genesistrine October 12, 2015 at 8:05 am

    Deconstructions: fun and educational! 😀

    It’s amazing what people will do to hang on to their religions.

    Though unlikely on Pern, sadly, unless the original colonists had a variety of religions and the no religion/superstition/etc pogroms came in later, and then you’d expect secret Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist/Baha’i/Scientologist/FSM/etc cults as well, not to mention all kinds of syncretism. Which is a fascinating thought….

    And reminds me, slightly tangentially, of the Cuming Museum in South London, which is, essentially, a Victorian gentleman’s junk collection. But among the tchotchkes he and his heirs liked to collect was lucky charms, and it has tons of those given to and sold for soldiers, sailors, airmen… kept by them, given by loved ones to them… why don’t dragonriders have lucky wher claws? Lucky scarves knitted by boy/girlfriends? Why aren’t there charms sold at Gathers to give to someone you love to feel you’re helping keep them safe? Hell, even going out with the flamethrower crews carries the risk of putting your foot into a Thread burrow…. I can maybe get behind no religion, but superstition is a fundamental of human nature (even rat nature! And pigeon nature!) when confronted with something it can’t control, and what could be more uncontrollable than coming out of between in close proximity to hungry Thread?

  15. beappleby October 12, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    Well, I doubt the average person using the word “bloody” is going to know they’re really saying a compressed version of “By Our Lady”. Especially since it’s also a word in it’s own right.

    The colonists in Dragonsdawn say “Jays!” a lot, which took me a long time to realize is like my “geez!”, which was originally short for “Jesus” but which I am not intentionally invoking when I say it.

    I always assumed the “carbon sticks” were a type of graphite, maybe a softer variety. I don’t think it’s literally charcoal. And in a world where wood is a scarce commodity, burning charcoal might not be something that was retained, so again, a word would be lost.

  16. beappleby October 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    Sorry, I seem to have commented under two different names – I’m also Brenda A. Not sure what happened there.

  17. genesistrine October 13, 2015 at 5:01 am

    One of the OMG HE’S SO NASTY things Meron did was forbid his holders to burn traditionally-free wood and force them to buy coal instead, so it doesn’t seem that it’s scarce so much as dragonriders whinge about having to protect it. The Smiths, at least, can safely be assumed to want charcoal for smelting, and it may be used for heating/cooking as well – we haven’t been shown much of that, though no-one seems to suffer from cold rooms any more than they do cold baths.

  18. Silver Adept October 13, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    @ genesistrine – Maybe there are hidden religionists somewhere, but that plot would be easier to use of everyone acknowledged the reality that there is an Official Cult on Pern of dragons, their riders, and the Harpers. If that were true, Yanus’s actions toward Menolly’s “tuning” would be cruelty with the idea of survival, instead of cruelty toward her because she’s a woman with talent.

    I think a superstition on Pern might have to do with the rhyme that dragonriders say when they go between. It’s supposed to be a measure of time spent there, but it also could be a warding phrase where so long as you never finish it, you never risk dying in the warp.

    But yes, while we have gambling and money, we have no lucky mark pieces, no charms or spells, no real anything that would indicate a thriving folk practice, even with all the songs and ballads and dances and other things the Harpers have at their disposal as bards. Where are the people who insist that their flying gear always goes on a certain way so that they never catch cold or Threadscore?

    As for charcoal, coal is clearly being mined, as was pointed out. And there must be some form of coal stoves or other heating apparatuses in the Holds…which makes me wonder how they vent the smoke and byproducts of those things, if everything is under ground or in cliff faces – chimneys, somehow, that can close up against Thread? Always outdoors cooking? When Piemur was inside the Hold, there were ashes to use from a fireplace, but no mention of how the smoke gets out…

  19. genesistrine October 14, 2015 at 3:21 am

    No folk remedies or placebos either. Everything we’ve seen the Healers do is in line with accepted Western medical practice (except abortions are via dragonrider).

    Re chimneys; any standard rain cowl should keep Thread out too. I don’t see ventilation as an issue. Plus, if the fires are on, any bits that do get in will burn up.

  20. Silver Adept October 17, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    No recreational drugs, either – no smoking, snorting, or otherwise ingesting things that will cause an altered mental state, other than alcohol and fellis, which means no possibilities for discovering LSD, peyote, psilocybin, or any other hallucinogenic item, so no ecstatic states and no visions. The folk medicine plants just happen to correspond with Western medicine applications, and nobody has tried to use them in off-label ways, apparently.

    There’s a giant discrepancy of culture here.

  21. genesistrine October 18, 2015 at 4:07 am

    Maybe that’s what happens if you try and genetically engineer religion out of humans – it takes out a whole chunk of related stuff too; superstition, ecstasies/theophanies, maybe even a whacking great lump of creativity and innovation too, considering how historically static the society has been.

  22. Silver Adept October 19, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    If you were looking to write Pern as a dystopia, that would be a great line to follow out to its end and see what happened. Because there’s certainly been a great chunk carved out of this society and somehow prevented from returning by accident or design.

    Until Fandarel and his monomania for efficiency, perhaps.

  23. genesistrine October 20, 2015 at 1:56 am

    Or possibly just going on beneath the surface we see. What percentage of people are in the Lords/Crafts/Weyrs, as opposed to the (going back to 1984…) prole holders and drudges we don’t?

  24. Only Some Stardust October 20, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    You’d have to engineer out superstition if you wanted to get rid of religion, they’re pretty closely tied / same basic process. And taking out the human tendency to try and see more meaning than is actually there would destroy a lot of creativity indeed.

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